Persistence, Expertise & Creativity Wins The Day (and the contracts!) Podcast Transcript

[00:07] Richard C. Howard: Well, hey, everyone, thanks for listening. This is DoD Contract Academy podcast. And today I'm with Sam, who is the founder and CEO of Parts Life, Inc. Sam, how are you today?

[00:19] Sam Thevanayagam: Very good, thank you. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.

[00:22] Richard C. Howard: No, thanks for coming on. And we've talked briefly before this. We love having businesses on that have had to learn the process of federal sales and have seen success, and our listeners really resonate with that and had take away a lot of value. So, yeah, again, thanks for having us on. Maybe we should start with what your company is. What is Parts Life, Inc. What do you guys specialize in?

[00:46] Sam Thevanayagam: Yeah, so Parts Life is a company that I started 15 years ago in 2007. I come out of the automotive aftermarket. It's what I know. Well And I thought when I started my company in 2007 called Patch Life, I thought I was going into the automotive aftermarket, but the aftermarket at that time was extremely not doing well at all, and I had to pivot into the defense space. I recognized that the military, Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps needed part support, especially because the assets that they had were being extended even beyond the life of what it was created for. And many times the government did not have the technical data package in order to be able to supply and support the fleet. And so it was neat that I had called my company Parts Life already. So it actually was a great domain name for the work that I was looking to do. Right. So I started Parts Life in 2007 to create technical data packages and go from technical data packages to prototype, from prototype to low rate production. And then I acquired two other companies, one, five years ago out of bankruptcy, a company called Deval Life Cycle Support. It's a company that has been around for almost 60 years. I bought them out of bankruptcy five years ago. And then I bought another company called LC Engineers about three and a half years ago. And I've also acquired I've done some asset purchases as well from another couple of companies. And so the purpose of me acquiring and also growing organically is to really become a bigger part of what the program manager of a defense platform being able to meet those requirements. Right. So that is kind of the design. So it may look like I am all over the place, but I have a specific architecture in mind on how I'm looking to grow both organically and also how I'm growing through acquisition.

[03:00] Richard C. Howard: Okay. Now, I do have a question about that, by the way. We don't in fact, you're the first guest that we've had that specializes in providing these type of parts. We get a lot of service providers, a lot of kind of cyber technology related companies. Not that Parts aren't parts certainly would tie into that right. But there is a different process with parts and some different agency involvement. Maybe before we get into that, are there specific weapons systems or whether it's aircraft or tanks or vehicles, are there specific things that you're targeting as far as providing these parts? Are you kind of right across the board? Kind of whatever the government needs?

[03:44] Sam Thevanayagam: Yeah. So we are in the process of actually shifting from being all over the place to really looking at so I have a new strategic initiative within our company called the Right 50. So we are looking at the Right 50 weapons systems that we want to go after. Right. So as a leader, it's very important for me to work in the right place. Not only about working hard and smart, but also working in the right place. So we are in the process of identifying the top 50 weapon systems that we believe best fits the type of products and the type of services that we perform. And so our guns are aimed at really understanding what those platforms are kind of how much money they are spending on procurement, how much money they are spending on Rtnd and Om. So we are really following the money. We're doing a better I would say we're just starting to do that. I certainly won't call that a mature process, but certainly we are thinking about how does what we do apply to how they are being funded and the types of funding that is coming down the pipe for those platforms and we are working on focusing on those platforms.

[05:09] Richard C. Howard: Yeah, I know that's very smart and I talk a lot on the podcast about the fact that one thing selling to the government is different from commercial is most of the information is going to be out there public and you just need to know where to grab it, right. What has been spent and the published, whether it's the budgets that have come out and where the government's focusing. There's some exceptions there with classified. So you're right, I mean very smart and also the focus piece. Right. So I can remember being a program manager. I might get a company come in and say, hey, I can do whatever you want and then I get another one come in and say, hey, I build radar systems that can be flown at x altitude. So typically if that's what I had to do, I'm going to go with a company that focuses on that very smart. And I can see just from being able to see your federal sales that you've been very successful in growing over the years here a lot with the Navy and other organizations, with military like you've talked about. Now that we have kind of an understanding of where your business is right now and what you're focusing on, some of the transition, maybe we could go back to when you started this business and thought you were out of the kind of the auto aftermarket industry, like you said, and you decided to pivot. It's a pretty big pivot and learning curve. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about why you started thinking about the defense sector and what your journey kind of looked like going through the learning process and inevitably being successful there.

[06:47] Sam Thevanayagam: Yeah, so thank you for that question. I had to give it some thought, knowing I was going to be on this podcast. So a couple of things come to mind, right? One, because the assets were continuing to be used even beyond the life that it was designed for, I kind of knew that these programs were looking to extend the life beyond what it's designed for. I knew that they could have issues with regard to supply issues. So it's like, I kind of knew there was a pony there. But of course I needed to find the right people to talk to, the right agency to fund it and that kind of stuff, right. And I also found out that the military is good at coming up with acronyms. So they had an acronym DMs. It stands for Diminishing Manufacturing. Manufacturing sources and material shortages. Diminishing manufacturing sources and material shortages. It was a great way for them to actually describe the problem. So recognizing that that was the language that the military and my customer spoke, I created my own acronym. I called it rope. Rapid obsolescence, planning and execution. And so rather than tell the government, I can do this, what I did was I actually created a process that said, here is exactly how I plan on solving your problem. It's very similar to when you go to a Japanese restaurant and you see somebody cooking for you, right? You see this person cooking. So it's not like a bag of tricks. They're actually doing this right in front of you. And so you're saying, I know exactly if I wanted to do this myself, this is exactly the methodology that I follow. And so we live in a do it for me society, right? And so I created this whole process. I actually got it trademarked long before I could even afford to do something like that. I knew I had something of value. And then, of course, I wrote a white paper. It took me about, I want to say about five years to get the customer to be able to buy into what I was doing. Because if you think about it, the government knows how to buy something. The first time, if you think about it, I was at Right Pack and I took a picture with the guy who put out the largest single source contract ever, right? It was for the two presidential helicopters. I said, Man, I want to take a picture with you because there have been larger purchases, right? For instance, the Joint Strike Fighter is a much bigger purchase, but that was completed as far as the presidential plane was single source. The government knows how to buy something the first time. They don't know necessarily how to pay for something a second time. Right. When a technical data package is not available, it's very difficult to use a contracting instrument that is governed by a far cross to pay for something a second time. So this was a huge obstacle that we had to overcome. But by God's grace and using a consultant to help me to get in front of the right people, I was able to convince the DLA, R and D office to use the CIVA program as a way to be able to pay for this service that I was looking to perform. But the beautiful thing, Richard, is not only was I successful, I was actually successful in creating an entire ecosystem around it. Because today there are many small businesses that are doing the kind of work that I am doing right. So it's a beautiful thing. I went on a safari to Masai Mara, and the first time I went, the first night that I went out, I saw these lion cubs eating from a buffalo. And the next day it was the hyenas, and the next evening it was the vultures, and the next day it was the insects. So it's a beautiful thing is when you are successful in entrepreneurship, everybody eats. I'm thankful that I was able to create an entire ecosystem around what I did. And even today, there are other companies other than myself that are doing this type of work, and they actually used my rope process as a statement of work to be able to fund this kind of activity. And so I'm really thankful for that.

[11:38] Richard C. Howard: Yeah, I mean, you bring up a lot of great points. I don't think many people realize when they think of the government, a lot of them think of kind of this omnipotent well oiled machine. Not all of them, right? But when they think about buying a big weapon system, for instance, well, how could they possibly not think about buying the second one, right? Or maybe not understanding that if the government buys, we'll take a wax Alex. It's an old aircraft command and control platform that we're replacing in the process of but the biggest cost over time isn't buying the weapon system. It's everything that comes after that. The whole tail is taking care of it. It's the training, the mechanics, replacement parts, as you well know, and a lot of times what ends up happening. So I flew aircraft called Jsties, another one called RC 135 Rivet joint. And these aircraft, like a lot of the parts were the production just wasn't happening. They were so old and the government just kept them going and flying for so long and modifying them that we had to hire different companies out there to produce the different parts and to make improvements we need. It sounds like you discovered that. And at least for part of what you're doing and fit right in there.

[12:54] Sam Thevanayagam: Yes. And so it's just very important to kind of understand the customer requirement, really have empathy on it, but then to be able to speak the language of the government. Right. I mean this was a very difficult process. It was a very complex process. It was getting in front of the right people. It was making sure that we had the right contracting mechanism in front of it, that it had funding in front of it. Today I'm very careful when people come to us that I talk to the customer and say, hey, do you have a way to get to us? Right? Number one, and do you have funding for this? Because end of the day, I'm not a foundation, I'm not a charity. I do that work outside my organization. We are a company that has to make a profit. So I don't want customers kitting tires with me. It's very important for me that if I'm going to create value that you have a way to pay for it, number one. And number two, there is a way to get to me. Right. And every agency has their way of how they want to get to you. Right. And so it's not an easy thing to when you're a newcomer in government contracting, people tell you, oh, you have an A, you have a HUBZone, you're a disabled veteran. I have actually sat down with people who are disabled vets and they sometimes have a very incorrect understanding of government contracting. Right. They think that because you have this status that you're going to get millions of dollars worth of contracts and that is the furthest from the truth. Or if you're a naturalized American like me and you are able to get an eight day certification, you feel like you're going to get all of these sole source contracts and that is a myth. And so we really have to have the qualifications, the capability, the capacity to be able to meet and exceed your customer requirements.

[14:56] Richard C. Howard: Yeah, you're really hitting the nail on the head. There's a couple of things with that, right. I mean one thing that I think companies understand it takes them a while to get is that 99.9% of the people you meet in the government will never be able to make a purchase from you. And most of them really have no idea how that process works because there's a whole acquisitions for us. It's actually a small, pretty small community. You need a warranted contracting officer and usually a program manager manages the whole program. But there are a lot of businesses out there that can get the idea, like you said, that, hey, I'm going to go get this certification, woman owned small business and everything's going to come start coming to me service, disabled veteran owned small business. And you're right, that's not the case. Certainly there are times where especially a small business can work within a contract that has been set aside for a certain group and that can relieve you of competition. And there are ways to get a sole source contract as an eight, A and even SDVOSB. But those have to be worked really hard. Like you said, the money is not going to fall from the ceiling into your lap because you have a certification. You have to have a very great understanding of the process and you have to work that process and you could have someone that wants to buy from you. And they probably like take me for instance. I didn't care what anyone certification was. If you walked into the office and you knew what my problem said was and you were a company, I wanted to know that you could solve my problem. I wanted to know that you understood it and that you could solve it. And then the next thing is how do I put this company on contract?

[16:35] Sam Thevanayagam: Right?

[16:36] Richard C. Howard: Just like you said. And that's another, I think, stumbling block for a lot of businesses, which is it's hard to explain to them that the government can't just buy the way me and you can. So that the government needs to have a way to get to you.

[16:49] Sam Thevanayagam: Right?

[16:49] Richard C. Howard: That could be GSA. That could be. I think I saw you were on Seaport NXG. There are these vehicles where the government could put you on contract very quickly compared to that competitive drawn out process which I'm sure you're aware of.

[17:03] Sam Thevanayagam: Yeah, I think another thing that I would like to tell the listeners, because I thought about it, is a good way to start off is as a sub. Right? So even though it took me five years to get to the government regarding this Parts life solution, in the meantime, I was a sub to an integrator. They needed some seals for a seal kit that they were putting together. It was a huge purchasing opportunity, but there was two seals that they were having a really difficult time with. And I was a good supplier. I have a certification in seal engineering and I was able to design and build these seals for them. And so even while I was actually on the hunt to create this solution for the government, I was a sub to a prime. And so that is not a bad. So when you're small and you're starting to create success, it's not a bad way to think about it. To be a sub to a prime as a way to get your feet underneath you and to get going. A couple of other things that I find very helpful is we had a consultant teach us something called Layers and Players. Right? So when I first started teaching my own team exactly how to think about government contracting, I had identified three stakeholders the small business office, the contracting office, and the folks in the program. So those were the three players that I had actually identified. But we have been better trained. Now we are also thinking in terms of the people who are actually using the parts. Right. It could be a maintainer, it could be an installer and also who is the OEM or the prime in that space and also who is your competition. So as you think in terms of layers and players, it's important for us to think in terms of these six players and players. Because when we are trying to sell something, yes, the contracting officer is the one making the decision. And if it's a price sensitive product, so their contracting office can make that determination. But if it's a technical solution, the more technical a solution is, it takes it further and further away from price to the program. Understanding your Solution can you meet all of the qualifications that are requested? Do you have past performance? So really getting to understand what the program is looking for and being able to make sure that you're able to meet those things is very important. So not to make it any more complex than it is, but we have to think in terms of these models. You have to think in terms of layers and players. You have to think in terms of being a sub to start off with. It's a great way, maybe getting into a mentor forte program as a way to be able to be coached into that process. And what I find is big companies, they talk a good talk. With regard to mentor, protege, I'm not so sure. They're very good at smaller companies like me because we have the empathy and because I've already been through that process, I have a pretty good understanding of what a small company needs in order to be able to come along. Right. So these are some things that I would actually offer up as good ideas for a company just starting out.

[20:38] Richard C. Howard: Yeah, I mean, those are amazing suggestions and I think you're right. Subcontracting just starting there. Some companies only subcontract. You don't even see them as a prime. They'll just work with the primes, like you said. And the prime could be a large defense contract, but it also could be another small business. Right. I think I would give a lot of footstomping to your point. Working with another small business or maybe a smaller large company may be an easier process for a small business because you get maybe that one on one that you're looking for to learn. And a large company, I always found large and we need them. So there's nothing wrong with large companies. But talking about the big defense contractors, a lot of times there's bureaucracy involved with those companies very similar to the government. So they have to be aware of that. You obviously thought about this. I really appreciate that. I took a lot of notes and there's so many areas to go to. One area. And this might help some people think about it too because I liked how you were talking about the different people you needed to talk to. And this was on another podcast so I can't take credit for this, but I heard a contracting officer describing the difference between the company, the contracting officer and then the program manager, which I think you're referring to the program office as that which kind of manages the effort. And he described it as the contracting officer is the priest at a wedding, right? So the contracting officer has the legal authorization to put a company on contract and to commit funds on behalf of the government so they have warrants up to certain levels. So if you want to make money selling to the government, eventually it takes contracting officer to sign that paperwork. But in a lot of efforts it's not the contracting officer that's going to manage that program. He's just the priest. The company really has to think of the bride as the program office. The bride is the one that you actually are signing up, going into a contract with and going to be working with for potentially years. And then of course the groom would be the company. And then I think when I talk people through that, then they finally get it. Okay, so the contracting officer is not actually going to be in charge of me. Especially if you're designing something like you said, something technical, a solution. You'll work with that program office to come up with the final product and the CEO, you might only see them when it's periodically when it's time to kind of renew your contract, do a delivery order, you might not even see them at all. It might be the PM that's paperwork around.

[23:18] Sam Thevanayagam: Yeah, I think it's very important to think in terms I think first of all, that's a great analogy between the priest and the bride and the groom because really if you think in terms of the groom, the bride and the priest in that analogy, they have certain requirements that you have to meet. Right? So the contracting office is looking for certain things that you must have in order to be able to get a contract. But the program office is really looking to make sure that you have a good understanding of the statement of work and what is your unique solution and how are you going to meet that and do you have past performance? And I think being a sub is a great way to actually build that past performance as well. Because if you think about it, there are so many constraints in government contracting, right, because in the beginning if you haven't worked for another contractor or somebody like that, when they ask you for relevant past performance, it's very difficult for you to just come up with that. Right? So being a sub is a great way to do that. Number one. And what we are doing is we are actually starting to catalog almost we have an intern who's actually starting to catalog a lot of our past performance. Because as we get qualified on many parts, we are looking at not only the part, but we are thinking in terms of what that part goes into, right. What is the platform? And so we are starting to say this is the part we are supplying, this is the program, or this is the platform. And so now that actually helps us to build past performance in order to be able to say how do we now use that past performance as a way to be able to go after more work. I'm actually using something called a heat map to be able to say, let's think in terms of where our past performance is so we can actually give that to our strategic account managers to say, hey, here are some places. So yes, I have the right 50 that I'm working in. But also let's look at where our current work is and let's see whether there are some of these programs that also may need other work. Right. So it's a great way to reach out and say, hey, we've done this, we like to do more, right?

[25:39] Richard C. Howard: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, one of the top ways to sell to the government, this is what I always tell people, is because I have one client where I will do all of their sales for them. I only take one. And then I focus on the academy and training and coaching and whatnot. But upselling or if you're on contract with somebody, the easiest way to continue your sales, and it's often missed is especially if you're working with that program manager on a relatively continual basis, is to ask them, hey, do you need anything else? Is there anything upcoming that we might be able to engage on? Or do you know another shop, another office that might be able to use our product, our solution? And that is such a great way to get your foot in the door, whether it's just finding out about a solicitation coming up or getting introduced to someone that could really because they're not really a program manager, just like you're busy. They have a lot of different efforts in addition to maybe being in the military and having to deploy and everything. So they're not thinking about the different opportunities for your business necessarily. But if you ask them that's when they can I can remember doing it several times, that's where you would pause. Because you want to help a good company if you're in the government, if you're in the military, you want to help a good company get on different programs because you're helping your buds in uniform, you're helping the company. It's a win win for everybody. And that other office now understood, you're getting recommended by another acquisitions professional that's dealt with you. And I mean, that's priceless so now they're getting the kind of skip the initial you might work going back and forth via email to get meetings and spend a couple of months doing that with a new potential client. Whereas all of that can happen in a three minute conversation in the hallway at an Air Force base. Hey, this is the company. It's parts of life. They're on NXG. We're using them. They're on contract now. They're awesome. Great. Now you have another client that can get to you. They know you have past performance and they might even be able to use a contract talking about how to get to people. They might be able to use a contract that you're already on and just add a delivery order to it or depending on what it is you're selling. So, very interesting. You mentioned something else and this comes up, it's been coming up almost every interview with companies I brought in, which is the SBIR program. So typically developing a technology or maybe modifying something you have for government use, which of course, in your case, I can definitely see that. Was that your first prime contract with the government? And if not, maybe kind of talk about what that process was like for you.

[28:17] Sam Thevanayagam: Yeah, so the SBA was not my first contract, but the SIBA was actually used in order to fund my rope process. It was a great way for the civil program. It has the flexibility to pay for things like non recurring engineering charges, labor and material, all in one contract. Right. Many contracting instruments don't necessarily have that flexibility. So it is why the customer actually chose. In fact, the Siba and the Ota are two ways. The other transaction authority are the two ways how customers get to us on this particular type of work where we are recreating a technical data package. Because there's a lot of non recurring engineering charges upfront that you can't amortize into the piece price of the part. So once that engineering services and the prototyping and the testing is done, now you have phase three money or the customer has the ability to go out and buy those parts for the life of the asset. Right?

[29:28] Richard C. Howard: Sure.

[29:30] Sam Thevanayagam: It's very interesting because the saber usually is paying for innovation, but we are actually using it to do something that is older. Right. But the amazing thing is our customer was able to make an argument that the innovation was the rope process, that we were using a methodology to be able to create something that was older. Right. So it was a great way to actually massage that contracting vehicle into doing what we are doing. But I can tell you it has created a lot of work. But more than anything else, it is flying a lot of planes. You know that we are on the B 52 bomber, we are on the ICBM missile system. So there is a lot of critical parts that are on. These older applications that wouldn't be on it if not for the fact that the government was able to create this mechanism for us to pay for the services that we have to offer.

[30:30] Richard C. Howard: That is awesome. And I'm kind of smiling because I think that there's a lot of creativity within constraints right. And especially there are constraints abound right. In the federal acquisitions process.

[30:44] Sam Thevanayagam: Absolutely.

[30:45] Richard C. Howard: Both companies and the acquisitions people out there, some of the best I've seen are the ones that can get creative.

[30:51] Sam Thevanayagam: Exactly.

[30:52] Richard C. Howard: It'd be easy to say SBIR wouldn't work, right. But to be able to frame it the way you guys did awesome.

[31:00] Sam Thevanayagam: And at Tinker, I was at Tinker and the Primes and Mr. Denny DeAngelo, who's the ses in charge of Tinker, and also Mr. Anthony Bowman, who's in charge of contracting, I was actually talking to both of them about putting together contracting mechanisms so that Tinker could do that as well. Right. So they actually fashioned the OTA based on a lot of conversations and lobbying that I did with them. When I say lobbying, I use that term very loosely. I was actually talking to them very passionately about the fact that an agency like Tinker that had a lot of older applications needed their own contracting mechanism. I'm currently doing that with NAVSUP right now because even the nuclear navy does not have a contracting mechanism to be able to get to the obsolete parts that they have. So you need leadership. You need to be able to have the people in the program and the people in contracting to be able to work together. Sometimes we don't see that. I see contracting people not being very flexible and not necessarily saying, hey, how can this particular contracting vehicle meet this specific need? Right. And so you need the two coming together to be able to shape something. And we have been fortunate at least in two places where we've done that and we're seeing value flow because of that and we are seeing actual fleets. My vision is to support freedom. I see an American flag behind you, which support freedom by taking care of the war fighter while creating value for the taxpayer. So we believe we need to walk and chew gum at the same time. Right. So it's not only about taking care of the war-fighter. It's an awesome thing. It's a very important thing. It's why we come to work every day. But if you're also not creating value for the taxpayer and it's not affordable, we won't have a country anymore. So it's just very important for us in our approaches to always be thinking in terms of, hey, not only taking care of the fleet and the war fighter, the program, but how are we doing that while creating value for the taxpayer?

[33:22] Richard C. Howard: Yeah. You bring up a lot of great things there with me. Personally, I can recall just retiring and taking a little bit of a break from working with the military and the government and missing kind of the mission and the added value. So now, although I'm not wearing a uniform anymore for the people I work with that have never worn a uniform and people like yourself, there is something added. There's an added value there. So you're not just a great business that's putting a great product or solution together, because of course there's value in that. But when you know that that also could be saving the lives of men and women in uniform and helping protect the country, you love, helping improve our national security, even if you're doing something that's not on the edge, right. On the tactical or strategic edge, you could just be a landscaping company. Right. Not just, but that's very important work because men and women coming home, they need to relax and their kids play out there and make it great. I feel like there's an added sense of pride businesses.

[34:25] Sam Thevanayagam: And I think by being part of the extended enterprise and being involved in the national defense industrial base, we are very much part of I think Abraham Lincoln said it, it's not only the sailor, soldier, the airmen and the people out there, but those who are actually serving them. We are very much a part of that supply chain, if you will, or that value chain, if you will. Because if we are not doing what we are supposed to be doing, especially with regard to the Air Force and making sure that the parts are there for the fleets to be able to fly, the authorities, we also create support equipment. And I know that you can only be in the fight if you can get loaded very quickly. Right. So all of those things are very important facets of what we support. And in doing that, we are being part of the national defense infrastructure.

[35:25] Richard C. Howard: Sure. No, absolutely. Can I ask you, do you focus only on federal sales or do you also sell commercially?

[35:33] Sam Thevanayagam: We have a very small commercial account and it's something that we look at every year. We just finished our strategic planning process. So one of the things that we look at is we look at the defense budget. We don't look at the top line defense budget, but we look at those budgets that affect what we do. So for instance, if you're not careful and if you only look at the big number, you can be fooled into thinking that everything is well. Right. But if, for instance, if troops are taken out of, let's say, Korea, South Korea or Germany, that number is going to reduce because there is going to be a reduction in the DoD budget. But so we are looking at what are they spending on R and D? What are they spending on procurement? And what are they spending on operation and maintenance? On m right? Because those are the three budgets that affect us. And as long as there's enough money there, we believe, because a lot of our work has got a lot of overhead attached to it. We are an Ace 9100 supplier. There's a lot of buyamerica requirements, there's a lot of ITA requirements. We are in the process of getting cybersecurity compliant. These are things that those capabilities we may not necessarily be able to do just direct commercial work with that infrastructure.

[37:04] Richard C. Howard: Yeah, I know, it's interesting and we get a lot of different companies and some come in and federal sales is maybe an additional stream of income and then we get a few like yours where maybe it's the majority of their income and they have a small commercial piece and some focus 100% on federal government. But either way, I think it can provide certain safeguards and depending on what you're selling, it can be a great customer base to focus because the government is a large place. I have a few questions that I'd like to ask, that I ask everyone. And one of them is for the small businesses out there that are kind of listening to this now and maybe they're just getting started or thinking about it. What would you say is the biggest benefit to selling in the federal marketplace.

[37:53] Sam Thevanayagam: Versus yes, I think the US government is the largest buyer of goods and services in the world. But I would very quickly say, even though the US government is the largest buyer of goods and services in the world, the US government buys nothing. It's the people in the US government that are actually transacting that business, right? So it's just very important for us to make sure that we're not thinking in terms of the government and the bureaucracy. We are thinking in terms of people that we are dealing with, right? Contracting officers, program people, small business people. And it's just very important for us to be able to have those conversations, to be able to sell ideas, to have empathy on what they are feeling and sensing what are their needs and being able to meet them.

[38:45] Richard C. Howard: Yeah, great. And I've said this a couple of times, but in past episodes. But one recurring theme I get from especially great companies they're selling or business developers, account executives would be if you have to do one thing, if you had to break it down. Obviously it's a really complex process, but if I had to break it down into one thing, it is get in front of the customer, get meetings, start talking to people and develop some of those relationships. Because you're right, it is at the end of the day, it's people that are making these decisions. And you learn there's so much there, right? You learn about the opportunity, you learn more about it than you do have. Some companies, as you know, usually not successful, that are just pumping out proposals when they see solicitations. You have some that maybe do a little bit of that relationship building, but when you're really talking to them, you can learn more about the requirements. You can learn about other opportunities. You form that relationship. It's very important. So, what is next for your business? And maybe how can we help? How can listeners out there is there any engagement with subs or with the government that you'd like to see?

[39:55] Sam Thevanayagam: I'm really working on putting together a contracting vehicle with NAV sub in Philadelphia as a way for them to get to us on their obsolescence issues. I'm afraid that they kept getting kicked to the curb because they don't really have a good contracting vehicle to be able to get to them. And the fleets are getting older. Right. So I'm actually talking to some people, getting engaged with people to make sure that we are doing that. We wouldn't mind being in a mentor project relationship, both with a smaller company than us, but also a larger company than us. We've had some conversations around that with companies like Northrop Rahman to see whether there may be some specific things that they are doing in this area of obsolescence as a way for us to be able to maybe become like a sub to them. Maybe on the f 35 program. Right. The f 35 program is very large, number one. Number two, they are starting to have obsolescence issues. I just got off the phone in briefing the F 35 program regarding some things we are already doing, but certainly looking to see how we can be a bigger part of that kind of stuff.

[41:15] Richard C. Howard: Okay. No, that's really interesting. And if whether small business or maybe someone from a large company was interested, how would they best reach you?

[41:24] Sam Thevanayagam: [email protected].

[41:27] Richard C. Howard: It's easy.

[41:29] Sam Thevanayagam: [email protected]? Yeah.

[41:33] Richard C. Howard: Excellent. Excellent. I'll put that in the show notes, too, for everyone listening. Are there any parting thoughts that you'd have before we close down the interview for today?

[41:43] Sam Thevanayagam: No. I think that government contracting is not easy, and sometimes when you're watching somebody doing it, they may make it look easy, but it's definitely a contact sport. And sometimes you need a lot of resilience right. To be able to keep getting up and going after it. That's exactly what I did with this rope process. Right. I didn't stop calling on the customer because I knew that they had a huge problem. And we have a lot of contracts in place in this specific area because I knew that they had the bible says the poor will always be with you the same way obsolescence sparks. Obsolescence is just something that happens. Right. And so things get older, they break, and OEMs don't always have the technical data. Right. And so we've been successful in being able to provide that solution, and we continue to figure out ways to be able to invest in our capability and capacity so that we can continue to grow.

[42:53] Richard C. Howard: Well said. Federal acquisitions is definitely the long game. And you've shown your resilience through the years. I think also understanding the constraints you mentioned in this episode, and once you understand them being creative within those constraints, but really having an understanding of those constraints in the processes first. This has been an amazing interview. I really appreciate you coming on here and yeah, we're looking forward to talking to you again, hopefully in the future.

[43:21] Sam Thevanayagam: No, I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thanks. All right, everyone.

[43:25] Richard C. Howard: Well, thanks again for listening to this episode of DoD Contract Academy. I'll put all of the links in the show notes. If you want to get in touch with Sam or learn more about Parts Life, Inc. And then if you want to learn more about the federal acquisitions process, you can go over to Dodcontract.com. Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next week.

If you enjoyed this episode, you can also check out Deep Tech & the DoD's Venture Capital Programs where Sjueesh Krishnan CEO of Kinnami walked through his amazing journey developing critical technologies for the DoD, the benefits of AFWERX and why he looked to the US military as his first source for venture capital.